Hailey Dunn Case: The Experts Opinions on The Nancy Grace Show

Did Hailey Fear Shawn Adkins?
Why does someone mention the location of sleep?  What does it mean?
What did experts say?  Do they look smart now, or...?
Did experts, early on, catch on to any deceptive indicators?
Were the indicators tricky to catch?
Compare the responses of two experts, Dr. Lillian Glass, and Marc Klass below.
 What causes a change in language?
Emotion has the ability to change language.
What is the difference between a "person" and a "woman"?
What was more important:  the contents of the house, or the safety of its inhabitants?

  This is from January 19, 2011, the Nancy Grace Show.  Nancy Grace is now, at this point, recognizing the holes in the mother's story and seeks to address them.  Some experts weigh in.  It is interesting to see how these opinions looked back then, and how they evolved. 
We also have some good principles to examine, including the location of one's sleep.

  Please note that Statement Analysis is in bold type.  Underlining and color is added for emphasis. 

January 19, 2011 CNN.com/transcripts

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Texas. A 13-year-old cheerleader, broad daylight, leaves home by foot to head down the street to a little friend`s house. She`s never seen again. Bloodhounds scan the neighborhood and a local motel. Police combing motel surveillance video. No sign of Hailey. Did Mommy and the boyfriend throw a New Year`s Eve party just 72 hours after Hailey goes missing? Mommy says no.

Oddly, in police interviews, the boyfriend starts out saying, quote, what a "good girl" Hailey is, but then does a 180, claiming the 13-year-old little girl is promiscuous. A horrific scenario emerges. Hailey`s grandmother fears Mommy`s live-in molests 13-year-old Hailey, then murders her when she threatens to tell. Eerie slasher videos emerge, mommy`s live- in wearing a black hood, black S&M-type mask, black ninja outfit, acting out slice and dice scenarios on camera, chainsaws, machetes, knives, aprons for catching blood splatter, straight out of a horror movie. Oh, and he`s apparently smoking pot on video. We have the video.

And live-in Shawn Adkins speaks out, claiming he prays for Hailey`s return. But still at this hour, no one confirms he`s at church on his knees this past Sunday. Cops seize Hailey`s bed sheets, performing forensic tests to determine if a molestation and/or a murder occurred there. Did the live-in have access to sulfuric acid, and could it destroy a child`s body? And now to top it off, boyfriend Shawn Adkins goes on line, posting photos of himself with Hailey, talking about how much he loves her. We go to the boyfriend`s house to ask questions, but they claim he`s not there. But hey, his truck`s parked right out in front the whole time.

Bombshell, tonight. Multiple 911 calls, death threats by live-in Shawn Adkins, threatening to kill Hailey and her mother. We have the 911 calls. And tonight, we learn one of Hailey`s red hoop earrings found on her father`s living room floor, matching the earring Hailey wearing when she goes missing. But he and his girlfriend say he was never there that day.

As we go to air, child services yanks Hailey`s brother out of the family home, puts him into protective state custody. Why? Tonight, where is 13-year-old cheerleader Hailey Dunn?

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

BILLIE DUNN, HAILEY`S MOTHER: I really need to file a report on somebody, and I don`t have a car to get down there.

911 OPERATOR: What exactly happened?

BILLIE DUNN: I broke up with this guy a couple of days ago, and he`s a little MHMR (ph). And he`s telling me that he`s going to kill me and my ex-husband and that it`s going to be remembered for a long time. And he keeps on texting me and texting me. And I`ve texted back just to try to calm him down a little, but he said it`s going to happen.

911 OPERATOR: I`ve got a lady at 1804 Chestnut who wants to file a report on her ex-husband that`s threatening to kill her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, God! She`s been going all day.

BILLIE DUNN: My boyfriend and I just broke up yesterday, but he`s saying he`s going to go into my house to get his T-shirts, and I don`t want him in there while I`m gone because I don`t know what he`ll take.

Here she tells the operator that he is going into "my" house and take his 't shirts' (which are of no value and not something concerning) but adds that she does not want him going to and gives the reason why:

"I don't know what he'll take."  This shows that she is concerned about something (s) he might take, but does not know what.  We might expect "jewelry", "money" or just "valuables" but instead get the unknown.  It is important enough for her to say, which should raise the question, "What causes her to be so concerned?  This is strange enough for the 911 operator to question it. 

What is it that he could take?  This might cause some to question:  drugs?  X-box with home-made porn?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Multiple 911 calls, death threats by live-in Shawn Adkins, threatening to kill Hailey and her mother. We have the 911 calls.

And tonight, we learn one of Hailey`s red hoop earrings found on her father`s living room floor, matching the earring Hailey wearing when she goes missing. As we go to air, child services yanks Hailey`s brother out of the family home, putting the brother into state custody. Why?

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

BILLIE DUNN: Hello. My name is Billie. My boyfriend and I just broke up yesterday.

911 OPERATOR: And what is his name?

BILLIE DUNN: His name is Shawn Adkins. And he`s telling me that he`s going to kill me.

911 OPERATOR: He wants to go get his T-shirt?

The 911 operator did not expect someone to be concerned over a t shirt. 

BILLIE DUNN: Yes. Apparently, he left his T-shirt over there when he spent the night one night. And I just don`t trust him enough to go in there. Is there any way anybody can keep an eye over there?

He`s wanting to go in there. He knows that I don`t lock up, like, my windows. Sometimes, I don`t even lock the doors. And he knows that. So I`m kind of worried he could walk out with a TV or anything, my son`s XBox.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, we`ve been having a big problem with those two all day.

BILLIE DUNN: And he`s telling me that he`s going to kill me. He said it`s going to happen.

The mother defended her action of letting the boyfriend move back in as stating he was "only" threatening to kill her, accepting that her children could be safe "only" witnessing him killing her.  This is interesting in light of what was revealed:  that the mother of the victim eye witnessed, as a child, her own father's murder, not recognizing the acute psychological harm that comes to a child witnessing violence, nor the risk to anyone near a violent individual. 


911 OPERATOR: Billie Dunn? What exactly happened?

BILLIE DUNN: I broke up with this guy a couple of days ago, and he`s a little MHMR. And he`s telling me that he`s going to kill me and my ex- husband and that it`s going to be remembered for a long time. And he keeps on texting me and texting me, and I`ve texted back, just to try to calm him down a little, but he said it`s going to happen.


911 OPERATOR: I got a lady at 1804 Chestnut who wants to file a report on her ex-husband because he`s threatening to kill her.

Exposing children to Domestic Violence can result in not only harm to them, but in having child protective services remove them from the non-protecting parent. 



SHAWN ADKINS, MOTHER`S BOYFRIEND: We all get along just fine. I would never do nothing to that little girl.

Note the unreliable denial. 

A reliable denial has three components.  If there is more or less than three, it is not reliable. 

1.  The Pronoun "I" must be present

2.  The past tense verb must be present

3.  It must address the allegation

Here, he did not say "I did not harm that little girl" but only that he "would never", which is to avoid the past tense commitment.  

Note that he uses the distancing language of "that little girl."

BILLIE DUNN: I just don`t trust him enough.


ADKINS: It`s frustrating, you know, what she said about me.

It may be frustrating but he does not say it was not true. 

BILLIE DUNN: Sometimes I don`t even lock the doors, and he knows that.

At first, of course, I never would have thought he could have anything to do with Hailey`s disappearance or could ever hurt her.

When someone says "of course" it is an indication that they want us to take what they say without question. She is speaking to strangers who do not know her and the word "of course" is not appropriate here, making it an attempt to portray herself in a positive light.  She says "of course" here, as the same one who called police with the threat earlier, to have him arrested.  This strongly indicates her knowledge of his capabilities. 

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She called in saying that he was threatening to physically harm her and/or kill her.

BILLIE DUNN: But now he`s just not being cooperative and not talking to them.

Note the word "just" in not being cooperative but she lists "not talking to them" as something separate from cooperation.  

This is and example of  artificial emphasis in an attempt to persuade. 

There should be nothing here that is in need of persuasion.  A mother who needs to persuade her audience that she is concerned is calling attention to herself. 

ADKINS: I love her with all my heart, and I believe she loves me with all her heart.

note the weak assertion as he adds, "I believe"
GRACE: 
Let`s try to go back out to Billie Dunn again. Liz, do we have that satellite fixed? Billie, can you hear me?

BILLIE DUNN: Yes.

GRACE: Billie, what happened surrounding your 911 calls regarding Shawn Adkins threatening to kill you and Hailey?

BILLIE DUNN: OK. He didn`t threaten to kill Hailey. They weren`t frantic 911 calls. I called the police from work because Shawn had been threatening me, and he said he was coming to my house while I was at work and I didn`t want him in here. And he was making threats to my life.

What one reports in the negative is very important.  She begins with "ok", often an agreement but her first full sentence is in the negative. 
Her second sentence is in the negative:  why would she care how the call is classified as her 13 year old daughter is "missing"?
Note the need to explain why she called. 

Note that she didn't want him there is said before the threats.  
GRACE: OK. In the affidavits, the police affidavits, it states that you said he had threatened to kill you and Hailey. So were you telling the truth...

BILLIE DUNN: He said that. I never said that.

GRACE: Who said that?

BILLIE DUNN: I was, and I didn`t say that in the affidavit. I think it says Shawn actually admitted saying that.

GRACE: So tell me why you called 911?

BILLIE DUNN: I called the police station from work because he was threatening -- he was threatening my life. He was saying he was going to come to my house and get a T-shirt. I didn`t want him in here getting anything when I wasn`t here.

GRACE: I`ve got the police affidavit right here. Colorado City police respond to 1804 Chestnut. Adkins alleged to have threatened to kill Billie Jean (ph) Dunn and Hailey Dunn during the dispute. Adkins informs investigators he never did that, but later confirmed he did threaten both of them. So the call was not made by him. The information was given by you. He first denied it. And then he confirmed it.

The police reported that when Adkins was confronted, he admitted threatening Dunn, but added that he threatened Hailey too.  This is how he speaks and it should be heard carefully.  It is why we stated that the remains will be found in Scurry County because he said so. 
BILLIE DUNN: Well, I did, too. I denied it, too, because if he had ever told me that he was going to kill Hailey or David, he wouldn`t have been anywhere around.

She seeks to alleviate his guilt by joining into it, spreading it around. 
GRACE: So all of your 911 calls were just because you were afraid that he was coming into your house without your authority?

BILLIE DUNN: Yes. And he was threatening me. I didn`t want him here.

The "threat" is sandwiched between the agreement of the house, and then she reiterates it.  The key is that she was more concerned with what he would have taken out of the house than any threats against her or Hailey. 
GRACE: He was threatening you, saying what?

BILLIE DUNN: I can`t even remember now, but I know he was threatening to kill me and Clint, Hailey`s dad.

The audio was just played earlier in the show in which it was going to be memorable.  Even without training it is likely that the audience heard the additional words "even" and "now" and knew she was deceptive.  Looking at the deception is helpful, though obvious:

"I can't even remember now" means "now"; I could remember it yesterday, or tomorrow, but not now.  

It is transparent. 


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADKINS: And as far as me, Hailey, and Billie and David, you know, we all get along just fine.

BILLIE DUNN: My boyfriend and I just broke up yesterday.

ADKINS: I just wish for her safe return.

It is only a "wish" for Adkins.  Given the pressure he was under in Jan 2011, I believe this wish to be truthful. 
BILLIE DUNN: It`s just not helping getting Hailey found.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILLIE DUNN: I never would have thought that he could hurt me or the kids.

note "never"
"would have" conditional. 
He`s saying he`s going to go into my house.

If I had ever thought he was going to hurt -- definitely my children, but myself even.

My 15-year-old son may be there also, so I don`t want him going over there causing problems with him, either.

He would have been out of here and he wouldn`t have come back.

He knows that I don`t lock up, like, my windows. So I`m kind of worried.

Note that she wants them to think she cares about the children, but "he knows" she doesn't "lock up" only "like" the windows, but when she is home with the children, she can lock up.  This is another indication that she is far more concerned about him taking something out of the house, but wants to appear concerned about the children.  
I love him. Yet again, I`m still -- I worry. What if he did do something to Hailey?

Note that this statement begins with loving Adkins, and the word "Hailey" is at the end, in an open question.  "What if..." shows worry about their relationship, contingent on him, not harming or killing, but having "do something"; 

One might ask if to "do something" is sexual. 
(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Holly in Arkansas. Hi, Holly.

Here we have the expert guest Lillian Glass who later went on to say that she thinks Dunn viewed Hailey as a "rival" for Adkins' affections.  This is early on and she is able to pick up the placing of Adkins above that of her own daughter, while others seem to miss:

I want to go to Lillian Glass, Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist of body language expert, author of "Toxic People." Lillian, I`ve got in my hand and I`m reading verbatim where the police say they`ve gone to the home, Adkins alleged to have threatened to kill Billie Jean Dunn and Hailey. First he denies it, then he admits he threatened both of their lives. So why tonight am I hearing it wasn`t like that?

LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Because it seems like Billie`s in denial. It seems like she hasn`t wrapped herself around the truth at this point in time because she is in denial. And it also sounds like she`s a victim of somebody who has been very abusive in the relationship. And this is typical behavior. They try to protect the person that they allegedly love. And even though somebody`s been threatened, they ignore it.


BILLIE DUNN: If he did hurt my daughter, I`ll -- I`m -- I would be disgusted by that and would never speak to him again. And hope he gets what he deserves, anybody that hurt my daughter. 

1.  We have the anxiety of the stuttering "I"
2.  We have a disproportionate response that sounds like a child's response.  If he hurt her daughter she will "never speak to him again" a la Junior High School drama. 
(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Billie, you have a 16-year-old son. What time did he leave the house the night before? 

BILLIE DUNN: I thought he left around -- he says he left around can 9:00 and Hailey was in his room playing his Xbox. I thought he left a little earlier. 

Note "his" Xbox and not "the" X box assigns ownership of it.  The word "left" gets our highest level of sensitivity and here we have it repeated.  David's leaving is highly sensitive to the mother. 

GRACE: Now, what time did you see her last, the night before? 

BILLIE DUNN: I saw her about 10:00 or 11:00 in her bedroom. 

GRACE: Was she still playing games? 

BILLIE DUNN: No, she was watching TV, laying in bed. 

she could have stopped with TV, but she went on to give body posture, indicating an increase of tension for Dunn at this point. 
GRACE: Now, the next morning, you checked in on her before you left, and you believe you saw her lying in her bed, around 6:00 a.m., right? 

BILLIE DUNN: Right. 

Please see the analysis on this from a different show in which the mother described what appears to be a body, rather than her daughter. 

Back to Billie Dunn, this is Hailey`s mother. I noticed in that 911 call you say "Sean Adkins is a little MHMR." Is that a mental health term? 

BILLIE DUNN: I was calling him retarded. 


GRACE: I want to go to Billie Dunn. Billie, I can see that you are angry or upset. You`re on the verge of tears. Look, we want to find Hailey. We want to find who`s responsible for her missing. And everything -- 

BILLIE DUNN: I want to be somebody looking for a live Hailey. 

Note that the subject is not someone looking for a live Hailey.  She said that she wants to be somebody like that.  

GRACE: I agree. Of course you do. That`s what everyone`s hope is. I know you don`t want to hear these 911 calls that happened in the past. I know you don`t want to think about all this. But every single thing matters, every little detail. 

I know that you`re there with Marc Klaas. Marc, advise her, why everything, every detail is important. 

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, you know, we know that and she knows that, but, you know, there`s a mother here that`s out of her mind looking for her daughter and there are guests on your show saying that she`s in denial. This woman isn`t in denial. This woman is trying to find her daughter. 

Note that the subject called her a "mother"who is out of her mind looking for her daughter, and then there is a change of language:  
"This woman" is "woman", gender specific, not a "person."
"This" is closeness. 
Then we have "this woman" is trying to find her daughter, which is not out of her mind, but is looking for her daughter. 

The "mother" is "out of her mind.
The "woman" is close, but not out of her mind and is looking for her daughter. 

What is the difference between the "mother" and "this" "woman"?

What caused the change in language for the subject?
  What turned Billie Dunn from being a "mother" who is "out of her mind, into a "woman" who is "not in denial" and worth being defended?

These are questions in which answers would be sought in the follow up interview.  

He then goes after "this guy", Adkins in the following two responses. 

There are plenty of scenarios that are possible in this case besides Sean Adkins. She seems to have, still, a decent feeling about this guy, and I would counsel everybody not to rush to judgment too soon. 

You know, Nancy, she lives right off of Highway 20. It would be very easy for somebody to take the off-ramp, take this little girl, and then be driving off down the road. There are numerous things that could happen. 

You know, we have search teams out here, looking for her now. And I think the focus has to be on finding a live little girl. There are plenty of avenues to investigate, but this is the most hopeful one and this is the one that I think needs to be pursued with vigor. 

Klass moved the focus away from the lying subject whom Nancy Grace had gone after previously about hosting a party, to the infinite unknown factor. 

Later, Klass would disassociate himself from Dunn and call for public shame upon her. 
GRACE: You know what, Marc Klaas, you`re right. You are absolutely right. Police have come right out and said we have more than one suspect. As you and I discussed last night, same time, same place.

This is -- I don`t want tunnel vision on the live-in. He`s just given us so many red flags, Marc Klaas, so many, that you can`t help but look at him as police are doing, as a suspect. But, you know what, marc, my mind is open. I don`t want to ruin the case by tunnel vision. What other theories would you suggest? 

KLAAS: Well, first of all, you know, I have to agree about Sean Adkins. Every day something else dribbles out that makes him look worse. Today that happens to be the 911 calls. But I think the whole possibility of somebody pulling in off the road and taking off with this girl is a very real possibility. 

He disparages Adkins after his remarks about Dunn, above. 
And I`ll tell you what I wish. I wish that America`s truckers had some way with of getting this information and being able to communicate it with each other via their DB radios. Because you know what, Nancy, there`s 2.5 million long haul truckers on our highways every day. They could be a great first responder force. 

There are people in this town, there`s registered sex offenders in this town that could be hiding out this little girl. She could even have amnesia and be wandering around, I guess, in a worst-case scenario. 

But the whole idea that people are saying that she`s in denial, people are saying that maybe she was alive at this point in time. Well, maybe she is alive. Maybe she`s waiting for us to find her. And that`s why we`re here right now. That`s why you`re here right now. And I would hope that we could sort of redirect some of that focus and try to look for this living little beautiful teenager. 

Note that he compliments the physical beauty of the daughter twice.  
Note that he ignores the mother's past tense references of her daughter. 
Note the weakness of his hope:

"And I would hope that we could sort of redirect some of that focus..."

a.  "would" is future conditional, rather than "I hope"
b.  "sort of" is the second weakening
c.  "redirect some" of the focus, not the focus
d.  "that" focus, distancing language
e.  "try to look" rather than "look"

This is an assertion with 5 additional words working against the assertion.  This might cause one to ask if the subject knows that the child is dead and that the mother has involvement and his desire is to move focus away from her and Adkins.  

GRACE: What about it, Billie Dunn? Any change at all in her behavior that you noticed? 

Question:  Was Hailey afraid of Shawn Adkins?  This came from a caller who asked it, and asked if there was any change in Hailey's behavior in the weeks before her disappearance. 
BILLIE DUNN: No. Like I said, in the beginning, three years ago, she was very upset her dad and I broke up, but I don`t think Hailey feared Sean in the least. And she wouldn`t have been afraid to come to me. She knows that she was number one, her and David are number one. And I don`t think she would have been afraid to come to me. 

And she didn`t sleep in her room until about a week ago. She slept in the living room on the couch. I think Clint`s mom is just upset. She wants someone to blame also, and that`s understandable. But I really believe Hailey would have come to me or her father. And I don`t think she was afraid of Sean. 


Here is the same answer with analysis:

No. Like I said, in the beginning, three years ago, she was very upset her dad and I broke up, 

1.  Was there change in behavior?   She answers the yes/no question with "no" and should have stopped there. 
2.  "Like I said" is a self reference indicating that she is not speaking from memory of the event, but of memory of what she said earlier. 


but I don`t think Hailey feared Shawn in the least. 

1.  "think" is to avoid commitment.  She does not say "Hailey did not fear Shawn"but only that she "thinks", indicating a weakness. 
2.  The weakness of "think" is then compounded with "in the least" which is emphatic. 

Strong: 

She did not fear Shawn.
She did not fear Shawn in the least. 

Weak:

I don't think she fear Shawn

Weaker:
I don't think she feared Shawn in the least.

"in the least" is used for emphasis, which some will argue, shows a need for emphasis, which could be explained away by the sensitivity of the situation. 

However, when emphasis is added to a weak commitment, we have a double weakness.  This is a strong indication that Hailey being afraid of Shawn is "sensitive" to the subject. 

Why would it be sensitive?  This is where the context of the situation must be considered because an analyst is seeking to draw a conclusion outside of an interview. 

In Analytical Interviewing, we note the sensitivity and ask follow up questions to learn why it is sensitive. Here, do not assume that she is simply lying. 

a.  It may be that Hailey fearing Shawn is sensitive to the mother because she knew Hailey feared him. 

b.  It may also be that Hailey fearing Shawn is sensitive to the mother for other reasons:

maybe she added the "in the least" because Shawn had so groomed and subdued the child that he overcame her fear. 

This is something that would have been explored in an interview.  

Reminder:  sensitivity indicators need to be explored in interviews. 


And she wouldn`t have been afraid to come to me. 

This is the kind of statement in which one might wonder if anyone on the show was listening to the words the mother chose. 

She did not say "Hailey is not afraid to come to me" with strength.  
"Wouldn't have" is in the negative. 
It is conditional, which, it may be argued that fear was hypothetical.  
Later, we heard from others who claimed that Hailey feared him and slept in a different location, perhaps so that her mother and/or brother could see her or hear her. 

Yet, did any single commentator hear the mother's words?


She knows that she was number one, her and David are number one. 

The mother slips into past tense language again, and corrects herself.  The past tense, here in January of 2011, shows that the mother knows Hailey "was" and no longer "is" her number one priority.  

By this time in life, Billie Dunn had been choosing verb tenses successfully for more than 3 decades.  It is safe to say that she is good at knowing which verb tense to choose without thinking.  She slipped.  She caught herself and said "are", which is present tense. 

Was anyone listening?

And I don`t think she would have been afraid to come to me. 

Here we see the weak assertion:  she does not say "Haile would not have been afraid..." but added "think" allowing for her to "think" otherwise, just as others might "think" differently.  She does not choose language of certainty. 
And she didn`t sleep in her room until about a week ago. She slept in the living room on the couch. 

Always note when someone gives the location of sleep.  Most do not.  Most say "she went to sleep" or "I went to bed"

When someone feels the need to describe the location of sleep, be aware that the person sleeping was a refugee from something, and needed to get her sleep in a safe location.  

This may be something small such as having to sleep somewhere it is quiet, but often it is important enough for someone to mention the location of sleep because the sleeper needed safety.  It is rare that we talk about location of sleep, as it indicates a change from the norm.  It can be something with kids that is out of the ordinary like a sleep over.  But here we have:

1.  the location of where she slept
2.  the fact that the refugee was a child.

The location of sleep is highly sensitive.  See, for example, Baby Lisa case, where the location of sleep became critical to the deceptive story, or the location of where some slept in the case of Ayla Reynolds, another case where the subject felt the need to say where a child slept, as highly sensitive. 

In every statement, if the writer/speaker mentions the location of sleep, look for a refugee like situation.  

We take for granted that someone slept in their own bedroom so whenever the location is given, it is often an indication that something is out of the ordinary:

sleeping on the couch may indicate a refugee from...a bad marriage, domestic violence, or even a stomach virus (near the bathroom)...we do not ordinarily mention where we sleep because we assume "in the bed, our own bed" is where it takes place. 

It is important whenever the location of sleep is given. This is a principle to follow. 


I think Clint`s mom is just upset. She wants someone to blame also, and that`s understandable. But I really believe Hailey would have come to me or her father. And I don`t think she was afraid of Sean.